My Experience

 

June 29, 2009

 

Superintendencia de Pensiones
Teatinos 317
Santiago, Chile
Re:  SAFP Identificación de Consulta xxxxxxxx

Dear sirs,

 

I am writing to follow up with you about a bad experience I had with AFP Cuprum.

12 years ago, someone illegally forged documents to transfer my retirement funds from my existing AFP to Cuprum.   This was almost certainly done with the complicity of at least two or more Cuprum employees, as they were the only ones who benefited financially from this transaction.  After trying to track down my money, I finally found it at Cuprum 2 years ago.  They have resisted returning this money at every turn, and required many visits, calls, tramites, etc. to recover my money.

 

In a letter from Carlos Fernando Retamales B. (telefono 674 43 13), Cuprum now finally admits that the money was transferred illegally, using forged documents.  Cuprum shows no willingness to find the employees who committed this crime, and against my expressed, written instructions, have now transferred the money elsewhere, providing no information nor instructions for recovering it.   They have apparently also decided to keep the interest earned on this money over the past 12 years. 

 

Cuprum alleges that they are only following the law in not returning my money.  I can only assume that they mean that they have begun following the law starting from some point in time after they illegally emptied my AFP account from another AFP provider.  As an excuse for not returning the money, they have found a technicality requiring an original copy of my work contract, even though, in the long period of time since this crime was committed by Cuprum employees, my employer has since gone out of business, and their legal representative has died.  Cuprum accepts no responsibility for the consequences brought about by their illegal actions, for their delay in responding for 12 years, nor shown any willingness to help whatsoever.

 

I find it amazing that the only consequences for AFP Cuprum of illegally emptying people’s savings accounts, is that they need to return the stolen money to the small percentage of the people willing to spend 12 years and perform limitless tramites in order to prove their malfeasance.  Certainly there must exist some stronger deterrents to protect people’s savings?

 

I would think that as an overseer of AFP accounts, and given clear evidence of fraudulent behavior, that this would be the type of situation that your agency existed in order to address.  I have written you once before, the reference number is xxxxxxxxx.

I am writing again to ask that you engage more directly with AFP Cuprum to help find and prosecute those responsible, and also to advise a workable solution as to how I might recover the funds from my retirement fund.

 

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

 

 

January 31, 2009

Dear Cuprum,

11 years ago, your company illegally emptied my retirement account at Provida without my knowledge or permission, using falsified documents.

On December 19, 2008 I was told that within six business days you would be able to show evidence that you legally transferred my funds.  On January 5, 2009 Mr. J. Perez advised that you would provide evidence that you legally transferred my funds in “a few days”.  On January 19, you advised “Hemos reiterado la solicitud de la copia del formulario de traspaso desde Provida hacia Cuprum AFP, la cual se encuentra en su carpeta personal en la AFP de origen. Esta información debería estar disponible dentro de 3 días hábiles”.

To date no one has provided any evidence that you transferred this money legally, and it seems abundantly clear that no one from Cuprum ever will.  The reason is simply because this was not done legally.

It is further obvious that your company illegally transferred all of the money from my account at Provida using falsified documents because:

All contact information on the account was fictitious

You couldn’t even get my name right on the account

I was living in Connecticut the year that the transfer was made

I don’t want to report your company’s actions, hire an attorney, seek publicity, or take further action against Cuprum, because it seems an inconvenient way to get you to return the money you took from me.  Do we really need to make this transaction so difficult?

To recover my money, you have requested three documents from me.  The first two are not a problem.  Providing the third, a copy of the work contract, is a problem however.  Because your company took my money without advising me, and because it took me 11 years to discover and prove that it was your company that took the money, the company that employed me in Chile is no longer in business.  The attorney that was the legal representative for the company is now deceased.  It is no longer possible for me to obtain a copy of the work contract.

My feeling is that in illegally taking my money without my authorization, your company bears a great deal of the responsibility for helping to resolve this issue.  Mr.  J. Perez of Cuprum advised that, in order to have made this transaction, your company would have required a copy of my contract, and should still have it on file.  Unfortunately, Mr. Perez has not produced any documentation, nor answered any further inquiries on this subject.

I look to you to advise how we may resolve this with a minimum amount of friction for each side.

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

February 2, 2009

 

Dear Sir

In response to your inquiry, your copy of the Transfer Order was requested to AFP Provida, the document still has not been sent by your former manager (at the time of transfer).  Upon receipt of this order, we will contact you.

In relation to the return of your funds, we inform you that Circular No. 533 of the Superintendency of Pension states that the only way to claim back their provident funds is to meet the requirements set out in Law No. 18,156 that are following:

1. Prove quality of technical or vocational training abroad, through the professional title authorized by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the country of origin and by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Chile.

 
2. Prove membership in an existing insurance scheme or social security coverage outside Chile in sickness, old age, disability and death.

3. Produce the original employment contract by the employer learned that the contributions which must state explicitly that any clause or annex to accommodate the worker insurance scheme in your country.

Therefore, it is not possible to return if not present the above documents, which must also be presented legalized.

 

 

February 2, 2009

 

Dear Cuprum,

 

Thanks for the response.  As mentioned, due to the extraordinary time elapsed since this money was illegally transferred by Cuprum, the window of opportunity to get a copy of my former employment contract has since closed.  As Cuprum initiated this fraudulent transaction, I am looking to you for resolution of the problem created by your actions, and the return of my money.

 

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

February 7, 2009

 

Dear Sir,

In response to your query entered on our website dated 31.01.2009, we inform you that after a slow and cumbersome process, we have obtained a copy of the Order of Transfer to Cuprum held on 26.09.1997. The slowness in obtaining the document is due to the antiquity of it, more than 10 years since their previous AFP Provida, did not have this record, so we had to do a Microfiche review process where this information was stored.

Moreover, under your claim of not having made a transfer to our AFP, was to make the regulatory process to clarify what happened, that is, entering a Folio 650 CU 125,033 claim, requesting an investigation by handwriting expert whether this was a forgery of your signature.

As part of the investigation, the expert has asked for a handwritten statement from you, with 5 signatures, which indicate clearly that this document claiming. You must also attach a document signed on dates close to it, in this case 09.1997 and a copy of your identity card.

This required information is located in Circular No. 650 Chapter II, Articles 134 to 139. Attached No. 0578 of 15.01.1997 issued by the Superintendent in which he refers to this matter. Attached motion.

As regards the period of evaluation and settlement of your claim, we estimate that this analysis could take approximately 26 days, beginning from the receipt of the documents mentioned above, and this will require our maximum acceleration.  You will be advised of the resolution of this complaint by email.

If the investigation indicates that there was forgery of your signature this transfer will not be allowed, and the money will be returned to AFP Provida, as is also pointed out by the rules.

In relation to the return of their funds, we inform you that Circular No. 533 of the Superintendency of Pension states that the only way to reclaim your provident funds is to meet the requirements set out in Law No. 18,156 that are following:

1. Prove quality of technical or vocational training abroad, through the professional title authorized by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the country of origin and by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Chile.

 
2. Prove membership in an existing insurance scheme or social security coverage outside Chile in sickness, old age, disability and death.

3. Produce the original employment contract by the employer learned that the contributions which must state explicitly that any clause or annex to accommodate the worker insurance scheme in your country.

Finally we would point out, we understand your pain at the time elapsed since we managed to send you a copy of the request for transfer, however, we would like to clarify that under no circumstances, was your case was being considered, it was managed in several instances by AFP Provida, sending this information, and unfortunately had to choose to get a microfiche, which is visually less clear, but which we believe will be equally useful to you.

Yours sincerely.

CUPRUM AFP

 

February 7, 2009

 

Dear Cuprum,

 

I have received your e-mail today.  Thanks for providing the documents which initiated the transfer of my money from Provida to Cuprum 11 years ago.  Per your request, I can confirm that this is not my signature on the documents, and at the risk of pre-empting the detailed scientific analysis of your handwriting expert, they did not even spell my name correctly in the block letters that they used in lieu of a signature.

 

It seems that we are now close to agreement on the key points that:

 

· This transfer was done illegally, using falsified documents

· This fraudulent transfer could not have been done without the complicity of one or more Cuprum employees.

· The only ones who benefited financially from this fraud were Cuprum and/or its employees.

 

It is not clear, however, that we are in agreement that:

 

· Chilean identity cards are only available to people living in Chile, thus I cannot provide you with this document, as you have requested.  I can provide a copy of my US passport however, if that will suffice.

· As mentioned numerous times, I do not have a copy of my original work contract, and due to the time that has passed since your company fraudulently transferred this money from my account, I am now no longer able to obtain a copy of the work contract.

· Cuprum’s transferring the money back to Provida, after 11 years, is not a workable solution.  To be perfectly clear, I do not authorize this money to be transferred to Provida.  I am seeking a solution in which the money is returned to me by Cuprum.

· Because Cuprum transferred this money illegally, using falsified documents, Cuprum bears the responsibility for finding a solution.   To date, you have provided no workable solution to this problem.

 

After 11 years of trying to recover my money from Cuprum, Mr. Miguel Angel Bruna Olate has given me less than two weeks to present you with further documentation to establish this transaction as fraud, at your office in Santiago.  I am happy to do so, but prior to going to this trouble, I would like to establish that doing so will:

 

· Lead to the return of my money

· Lead to an investigation into the Cuprum employee(s) who perpetuated this illegal fraud

 

Thanks again for your help and patience in finding a workable solution to this problem for both parties.  I look forward to your response.

 

28 February 2009

Miguel Angel Bruna Olate
Subgerencia Mov. of Funds
Phone 6744313
mbruna@cuprum.cl
AFP Cuprum
Bandera 236 - Floor 2
Santiago Chile

REF: XXXXXX Claim

Dear Miguel Angel,

 
Per your request, I am sending this handwritten, notarized letter to you by FedEx:

My name is xxxxx. I am a U.S. citizen, residing at xxxxx U.S.A. My email is afpcuprum@yahoo.com

I am writing to confirm that the signature stamped on the Irrevocable Transfer Order, signed and dated September 26, 1997 from AFP xxxxxx to AFP Cuprum SA was not signed by me. Not only was my signature forged by your company, but my address and employer were also completely fictitious.

In addition to this ridiculous handwriting analysis, please note that there is another document, my passport, which proves that I was not in Chile in 1997 when your company claims that I signed this document transferring all of my savings to your company.

 
Clearly Cuprum employees have transferred the money illegally, and I am disappointed with your response. I hope that with this letter you will finally take responsibility for correcting the illegal actions of your employees, and return my money to me and not transfer it to another division within Cuprum or to another company.

Attached is a photocopy of my Chilean identity card with my signature near 1996.  Per your request, this document has been signed 5 times for your crack handwriting expert’s analysis.

 

I hope that this letter represents the last of the endless paperwork and expense that you demand of me.

 

Santiago, May 12, 2009

In response to your complaint filed in support of our administrators, we are pleased to inform you of our ruling:

According to your claim dated 28.02.2009 where an unknown signature appeared on the Order of Transfer of AFP Provida SA AFP Cuprum SA signed on 26.09.1997, our calligraphic expert examined the Transfer Order.

On 30.04.2009 the calligraphic expert concluded: That the signature affixed to his name in the paper in question, is inconsistent with the legitimate signatures.

According to the above, we have deleted the account created in your name and return to AFP xxxx the balance transferred on 30.12.1997.

AFP Provida SA activated the account in your name, where they pay the balance transferred, leaving his account as at the AFP.

Submit doubts against the above, you are welcome to conduct their consultations in the agency nearest you, or contact our telephone service at 600-2287786.

Carlos Fdo. Retamales B.

U.Regularización de Producto

Sub Gerencia de Mov. de Fondos

A.F.P. Cuprum S.A. 674 43 13

 

CuprumAFP

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